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Leaders In Payments
Leaders In Payments
DE&I Special Series: Motie Bring, CEO of PPRO | Episode 306
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Unlock the transformative power of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DE&I) in the payments industry with Motie Bring, the visionary CEO of PPRO. This episode promises enlightening strategies that can help your business thrive by embracing the multitude of benefits a diverse workplace offers. Motie, with his rich experience leading a frontrunner in local payment solutions across Europe and Latin America, shares how PPRO's deep-rooted commitment to DE&I not only distinguishes them but also catalyzes their financial and cultural growth. Learn from his insights on the tangible impact of a varied workforce on innovation and success, and why nurturing this diversity is an essential belief, not just a statistic, at the core of their company.
This episode guides you through practical steps for fostering an inclusive environment at every stage of your business's development, from ambitious startups to expanding enterprises. Discover why transparency in sharing diversity data and recognizing individuality during recruitment can be game changers for businesses seeking to boost innovation and stay ahead of the curve. Motie illuminates the path toward an inclusive workplace, highlighting the ongoing efforts and humility required to address gaps in DE&I practices. Join us for a candid conversation that not only broadens your perspective but also equips you with the wisdom to spearhead change within your organization.
Welcome to the Leaders in Payments podcast, where we talk to C-level leaders from across the payments landscape. We'll be discussing the products and services that impact the payment space today, as well as trends and predictions for the future of payments. We will also hear stories from our guests about their journeys to the top.
Speaker 2Hi, monty, thank you for being here and welcome to the show. Hi, greg, thank you for having me back, absolutely so. This is the second of four episodes in March about diversity, equity and inclusion, and we have the pleasure of speaking with Monty Brigg again. He was on the show back in early January, so to learn more about P-PRO, I suggest you go back and listen to that episode, which is episode 287. So let's start out by talking a little bit about you and P-PRO and then we'll dive into the meat of the conversation. So, if you don't mind, tell us briefly about yourself and a little about your professional journey.
Speaker 3Thanks, greg. For those not familiar with P-PRO or myself, I'm Monty Brigg, the CEO here. P-pro is a company that specializes in local payment methods. Mission is to reach consumers and enable services anywhere around the globe. Core markets are European markets where we do local payment methods in Latin America. So Brazil, mexico, argentina. About me I joined P-PRO a year ago and I took over as CEO six months ago and spent all my career in payments for 22 years of payments experience from merchant to PSPs and obviously now here at P-PRO.
Speaker 2And for those again listening, I think if you want to learn more about the details of P-PRO markets. They serve products, unique differentiators, all those kind of things we definitely covered in episode 287. So, again, I suggest you go back and listen to those. So let's go ahead and jump into the meat of the conversation. So studies by McKinsey and Company find that companies with more diverse workforces perform better financially and there's a direct correlation identified between diverse workforces and higher profits. So, more specifically, companies that are in the top quartile for racial and ethnic diversity are 35% more likely, and those with gender diversity are 15% more likely, to perform above the national average financially. So, knowing that companies with a more diverse workforce perform better, as the backdrop for our conversation, let's just start at the 100,000-foot level. So what is your view on this topic? How do you define diversity, equity and inclusion?
Speaker 3Yeah, and I think a couple of months ago you and I met and we would talk about me as a CEO and P-PRO and at the end of it you mentioned that you're doing a piece on diversity, equity and inclusion and I got very excited because it's a topic very close to my heart.
Speaker 3And it's close to my heart not because of the statistics that you just mentioned, but because I genuinely believe in the importance of diversity, equity and inclusion in the workforce in different companies. I think everywhere I have worked in where there was inclusion definitely and diversity of people from different backgrounds and ideas have flourished. And I spoke about last time as a gay person and a gay leader. Inclusion was always very important for me to feel accepted and part of the conversation and the understanding of why diversity is so key for companies to want to achieve. And I think the diversity it means for me the ability to not just respect and accept people whatever works of life they come from, but also where what you're trying to achieve is a business, in the culture you're trying to build, that, the openness to not just different types of people but also different ideas and different strategies the business can adopt.
Speaker 2And you mentioned, and I think it's actually on your website, so I think it's probably part of the DNA, but you mentioned having a diverse and inclusive workplace is something that actually sets you apart, so you see it as a differentiator. So to me, I assume that that means that it's just part of your DNA. So is that true one? And then, if so, how does that happen? How do you make that part of your DNA?
Speaker 3It's true, it's on our website for a reason. It's something that I think we recognize is really important. So, people, we believe in accessing different markets, so we have offices in many, many locations and we try to simplify to our customers. So we need to understand those markets and their different needs, and I think for us it came from two different places.
Speaker 3Number one is the actual DNA of the company in terms of proposition and the second, the people that work here, and then how you combine the two of them into something quite powerful. We have actively pursued diversity, equity and inclusion ways of working and policies. We're not there yet in terms of where we want to get to, but we have a strategy in place of how we make sure that we become even more diverse, more inclusive, with a real meaningful structure around it.
Speaker 2So do you have specific programs or initiatives around DE and I?
Speaker 3Yeah, we do. So I think what we have done was first understand the baseline, so doing analysis based on the information we have in front of us, of the workforce that we have around the globe, with the limitations that come with it. So, as you can imagine, based on different local regulations, different countries, are different types of questions that you cannot ask your workforce. So we're trying to get a much deeper understanding of who works for us. And then, what do we need to do to have a more diverse and inclusive work environment?
Speaker 3So I'll give you an example For the number of people we have. We're quite diverse when it comes to nationalities and backgrounds of languages, etc. But if you're actually looking to then have that translate to representations of women in different roles, or black people, different religions, etc. You see a diversion for where we should be. So what we then do is try and figure out what do we need to have in place to enable a program in place to allow us to get to where we want to go. So where we want to get to the end result should be a true representation of the different segments in society in the company in different levels in the company and then what we do is build a program around recruitment.
Speaker 3So making sure that there's no bias in the as you put in place to the interview process, to the hiring process. Bias could be on gender, it could be on any other form. So making sure that we're addressing that. You look into your promotion cycles and how you go about that and how you make sure that you create an environment where people with children find it that the work environment is flexible enough for them to be able to be, to move up or other groups, and really make sure that we take all that into account while we build a workforce and set it up for the future.
Speaker 2So how do you know or make sure that these programs are successful? Are there metrics? Are there ongoing tracking? What do you do to make sure that they're working and successful and meeting the goals that you have for them?
Speaker 3What we do already is we track. So we do have metrics. We can see exactly how many. What is the speed between some of the key metrics? So I think the easiest one is, you can imagine, would be gender. It's always easier to do that, even on gender. There we're trying to evolve and get more to than the male, female, but get into a much wider range of gender definitions and then look into how we can expand into other groups that should have representation in the company and then present it back to the employees as well as to our investors, shareholders, so there's a full insight and accountability. We're also tracking, based on specific APIs, the recruitment how many different groups we have recruited over a period of the last 12 months in the different parts of the business. So we can then go and see how we're doing on tech versus finance, versus operation versus commercial. So we're actually doing the speed for all the different groups that we have in the organization and then we're trying to look forward and see where we need to go.
Speaker 3Now it's always really tricky, because what you don't want to do is you want to try and force adjustments, but you don't want to force it to the point where it becomes the only thing you're doing. It needs to be part of. You still want to make sure that you recruit the right talent there. They follow the principles that we have as a business and they bring in the knowledge and experience that we need to have here. But you want to make sure that, as you do all that, you have a strategy around diversity. That is part of your recruitment process.
Speaker 2Yeah, and we'll talk about that in a little more detail in a minute. But also, not only are you doing, you know these things, you tracking and reporting out and maybe those are some of the best practices. But you know, if you were speaking to another c e, o at a company and they were asking you, you know sort of what are the best practices? Is there maybe a top two or three best practices that helps to ensure these things are successful?
Speaker 3Don't in back on diversity, equity, inclusion journey. If you're not serious about you, don't mean it, because it needs to be part of everything you do. So it's not an exercise you do because it looks good. It's something you do because you genuinely believe in it. So I think that's where you have to start.
Speaker 3Nothing you have to have a good look in the mirror and reflect on what's what's not working for in your business and identify where you have gaps and why the gaps are there. And then I think for us, culture has been key. So make sure you have the right car train place, make sure you have the right training for the people in the teams. I think Recruitment policies are really important. I think having the right values, principles and courage, openness and inclusion I key. I don't think that it's one policy that you can have in place that is Going to make it a more diverse or promote it better. I think it touches everything you do in the business. It needs to be what? Everything you do, not just as a stand alone. You on the procedure process.
Speaker 2Do you have any type of like training or classes or anything for, like, the leadership team that you see works or doesn't work?
Speaker 3yeah, I think training is really important. I think awareness, first, the fact that we all have a bias is key. I know I said I don't think that there's any because that's the way we're born and raised, and so we need to acknowledge all of us will have it in us that it can manifest itself in different ways based on where we are and who are talking to, etc.
Speaker 3And then, as a huge need, to make sure that you have the right training in place for people, especially if you look at teams, teams are global teams.
Speaker 3You can have people from different countries managing from other countries, different cultures, religions, what is the system, I'm motivated, etc. So you need to make sure that there's a complete understanding and sensitivity to all that and make sure you take all that into account when. What do you want with your team? You give people feedback, you receive feedback, etc. So we're investing a lot of time and effort into into that. We had a senior leadership team Last week in munich spending couple days precisely everything to do on how you transform business and culture and how you're building the right attitude and how you do it in the most inclusive way where everyone's voices can be heard and respect and take part in the conversation, so you don't have one dominating one, these determining how everything is going to look do you have any sort of like feedback, like do you do surveys to employees to kind of get A sense of what they're feeling and how you know how the culture is growing?
Speaker 2I mean, obviously you you've grown a nice size business, so just curious if there's a sort of a feedback loop.
Speaker 3Yeah, we do. We had a first since I took over the sea. We did the end of the middle of january and we have the first gonna Results coming out of it. Diversity, equity and inclusion was part of it. Part of it in two different areas. One is we have it as part of our principal, so when we're doing in terms of tracking to the principal, and the second is part of the end of the scoring is you know, many companies do with the employees so I think that was the first For me as a new, you know, six months in role.
Speaker 3See, it's a good kind of a starting point that we can then go every quarter, six months and measure and see how we're doing. Against it. We did it last month and the results, you know I'm happy to share it. Well, far from perfect, we do have a long way to go. I think when we have it as part of our principal, you know, we scored okay, but it's clear that we need to do a lot more work to promote it internally. Add some questions and comments, and what does that mean to us? How will make sure that there is more diversity? What do we have in place for that? So we're doing a lot of work around it. So, internally, in terms of Is the ability around some of the stuff that we have been placed now and some of the training and sensitivity that we show around, what equipment? I want to have a culture change great.
Speaker 2You touched on this earlier, so I want to circle back to it about sort of the hiring process, cuz I think this is important. It's something we've talked about in past years, but you built this diverse and inclusive workplace culture so there's no hiding it. I mean it is part of the dna the company. So how do you ensure, when you're hiring someone, that they're gonna thrive in that type of culture?
Speaker 3I think it's really important to have a pro. So the whole process of recruiting people have to take into account the need to be an inclusive workplace and challenge each other about who we recruit and why. So I'm making sure that teams are not all the same, that you have different types of personalities, different backgrounds, different you know a good mix of people.
Speaker 3And then I think what I'm trying to do with the executive team and our senior leadership team is help make sure that culture that is inclusive and embracing diversity is really part of the day-to-day conversation that we have here in the office, that we celebrate the different, that we not just acknowledge it but understand what's the benefit that we have when we are a diverse work environment.
Speaker 3So how do we do that? We shared the stats on our diversity with the whole business in December. So we had a, you know, a monthly town hall and we shared the stats of where we are and we shared the stats of where we want to go. We explained to people why we want to ask them more questions about who they are so we can have an even more diverse work environment, and why we want them to feel comfortable to share the information with us and, you know, in confidentiality bases, of course, so not open services, you can imagine. So we do a lot of work around that and I think it's really important that when people go through the recruitment process and the onboarding process, you acknowledge their uniqueness and what they bring as individuals to a business. And we're quite lucky, right like, we're not a massive business, we don't have thousands of people, so we can make sure that everyone feels and being treated as a unique individual.
Speaker 2Well, one of my goals with this series is to have others learn from industry leaders like you and who have built this type of culture or are building it. So what I want to do is kind of break out this by size, the types of companies, and get your advice sort of for each one. So let's say you're a real small company and you're just building a culture. What would your advice be to them? What would you tell them to maybe focus on initially, since they're, you know, small and maybe don't have, you know, the DE and I is maybe you know, small part of what they do because they're a small company. But obviously, if they want to grow into that, what would your advice be for them?
Speaker 3I don't think that size of the business should stop you from having, you know, diversity, equity and inclusion Mindset. You might not need to have the same type of policies in place it doesn't have to be, you know all department that runs it but a mindset of diversity, inclusion is really, really important. You can do it with a business of three, four people. You don't need more than that, because the minute you have more than one person, you have different people from different walks of lives and different experiences, and I think you have to. If you appreciate that and you take that into account when you bring people into the business and you see the benefit in having different ways of thinking, different ways of looking at the world, then you're already on track to having a diverse workforce.
Speaker 3Inclusivity is about building the right culture, allowing people to have an opinion that is different to yours and having conversations that are done with respect and empower people to share their viewpoint. So again, I think a leader of a smaller business in many ways can make that decision and I think a lot of the time small businesses will say well, I need to have the right talent. Having the right talent if they all look inside the same is not necessarily having the right talent. It means that you're less open to people that be different to you, so you always should look around you and see if you're surrounded by the same types. It means that you don't have the right mindset for diversity and inclusion.
Speaker 2Yeah, I love the fact that you talk about the mindset, because I think that's so important. Well, let's move up. Let's say medium-sized companies and I know you said like size of the companies don't matter. But I think once you start growing as a company and you have a hundred employees or whatever the number is, then you start. I feel like you almost have to start making it more of a, I guess, a deliberate effort. As opposed to with a really small, it can be more organic. So what would you say to kind of a medium-sized company? What advice would you give them?
Speaker 3I think when I I didn't mean it, it doesn't matter in so much, as I think it's easier in many ways when you have a smaller company or a big company. I think big-sized companies tend to kind of fall in between and I would put people in that bracket right, like we're a few hundred people, we're not in the thousands, we're not just a handful, and a lot of the time these are the kind of companies that don't invest enough in diversity, equity and inclusion, because they're too. We're too busy in thinking like, oh, I need to hit my revenue targets or I need to make sure that I hire the best person, and you know, I don't really need to worry about that because we're not visible enough. But these are the most important companies, I think, because we set the scene for a huge amount of, you know, market share is massive. A lot of younger people come and work in our size companies because they find it more attractive or not as intimidating as the big, big companies. So it's really important that you have the right procedures in place.
Speaker 3I do think when you're a meat-sized company, you need to have you know, you mentioned mindset 100%. You need to have the right mindset for that, but you also need to make sure that you have a people function that have it as a key part of their agenda and you start having data that you feel comfortable to share and share internally. Because you're not probably company, you don't have to share it. But I think if you accountable to the people in your business about it, then it becomes part of the language everyone is talking and everyone is thinking.
Speaker 3There's a process of humility that comes with it because when you start looking at it, it's never, it's not easy and it's never great. All of us all businesses including us have a lot of work to do and a long way to go until we get to where we should be. So there's a process of having to admit to it. But then you have to commit. You have to commit to doing the work and you have to make sure that you have a plan short term, meet them and long term plan with different checkpoints so you can go back to and reflect on what you wanted to do and whether you managed to get there or not and set goals for the next round. But I think that's key for meat-sized companies, probably because it's easier for these kind of size companies not to have the right strategy in place.
Speaker 2Well, let's turn to larger enterprises, where it doesn't just become a checkbox kind of thing. How does it really get infused into how a company operates? What's your thoughts on the larger enterprises?
Speaker 3I think the most important thing is that it's not checkbox exercise, because people in the team will notice it in seconds. I think meat-sized or large companies, it is very much on the leadership and the senior leadership to be role models and if you're a very big business, it's big companies. Your people function should very much make sure that there's right training in place and to raise awareness among the executives and senior leaders on the right way to behave and look at things and speak and be ambassadors for diversity, equity and inclusion.
Speaker 2One question that I kind of thought of as you were talking in you know we really didn't plan on talking about this, but I want to bring it up is how do your customers view this Like, do you actively engage with customers about this culture that you build? Do you think it makes a difference in companies wanting to do business with you, or do you think that it's more of an internal thing as opposed to an external thing?
Speaker 3It's not just an internal thing, so I think it's external as well. I know one of our customers actually raised that as a question remark a couple of years ago where it was cleared in kind of the customer-facing function. We were light on diversity. I think it was very clear that the senior leadership was all males and they raised that as kind of between concern to a Y and it was very, very fair and I think I don't think that you're not yet probably heavily penalized for that but it is definitely an agenda for many companies and companies that have diversity, equity and inclusion as part of their identity in DNA.
Speaker 3They are more likely to notice it in others. What was really nice is the same company fast-forward, I think 16 or 18 months. I had an event and we had a fantastic senior female leader joining them as a speaker and was able to talk about her journey and her career and talk to younger women as an inspirational leader. But I do think that it's important on this point for companies, for all of us, to hold each other accountable. I think it's really important to ask those questions because it would help in making sure that diversity, equity and inclusion is part of the discourse, not just for International Women's Day or Pride or any other event, but it's part of it. As we talk about revenue and gross profit, we will talk about what we do on diversity.
Speaker 2One final question I'm going to throw in how do you think the payments or FinTech ecosystem is doing on this?
Speaker 3I think it's not doing great. I think it could do better. There are more women now, do you see, in senior roles? You see more people of color, gay people, etc. So there's definitely improvement, but it seems to not be equally done in all the different areas. I think if you look into businesses in FinTech on the tech side, it tends to be still male dominated. If you look into sales, you still see probably more men than women, and other minorities seem to be a bit less visible in some areas. So there's a long way for us to go as an industry. I think that a lot of companies are much more aware of it. I think it's a lot more part of the discussion and agenda for many companies. I think that we still have a long way to go.
Speaker 2Yeah, well, one of the reasons I do this series and have done it, for I guess this is the fifth year is to raise that visibility, because I think that awareness is incredibly important and, overall, this is an incredibly important topic in my opinion. So I want to make sure that we've covered everything that you want to cover. Obviously, we have covered a lot and I really appreciate you sharing everything. Is there anything else that you'd like to add before we wrap up?
Speaker 3No, I think exactly what you just said is really, really a key point. I think talking about it is really really important. I think it's really important for anyone who's looking to embark on a diversity, equity, inclusion journey. It's going to feel uncomfortable, you know. When you start it is uncomfortable. You're out of your comfort zone and you're forcing yourself to ask questions where you know the answer on them would be probably not as good as you would have liked it to be. But it's an important place to start because if you really take it seriously, you can only improve on it.
Speaker 3And then you look back after 12 or 24 months and you see how much progress you made and how that translated to changing culture, to engagement in the business, to the perception of the business internally and externally. It's a journey worthwhile taking, but it's not one day is easy or there are no quick fixes here. You can't just wake up one day and turn the business from having no agenda in place to being fantastic at it. It's something that takes a long time to achieve and then takes even longer because you have to keep going at it. You can't. It's not something you do for a year and then you stop. It's something that once you start doing and you should start doing you do it forever.
Speaker 2Yeah Well, I think that's a great way to wrap up the show. So, monty, thank you so much for being here today. I know your time is very valuable, so I really appreciate your opinions and your view and the DNA that you've built in that company and the culture you have there. So thank you so much for being on the show today. Thank you for having me. Greg, absolutely, and to all your listeners out there, I thank you for your time as well, and until the next story.
Speaker 1Thank you for joining us this week on the Leaders in Payments podcast. Make sure you visit our website at leadersinpaymentscom, where you can subscribe to the show and where you'll find our show notes. If you enjoyed listening, please share on your social channels as well.