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Leaders In Payments
Leaders In Payments
Women Leaders in Payments: Debopama Sen, Head of Payments, Citi Services | Episode 414
From humble beginnings as a mathematics student in India to overseeing Citi's payments operations across 94 countries, Debopama Sen's 29-year journey offers valuable lessons for aspiring leaders. Her perspective on leadership is refreshingly practical: find the signal amidst the noise, articulate a clear strategic vision, and focus on helping your team excel. "It shouldn't be about the leader," she emphasizes, noting that in today's AI-driven landscape, the competitive edge comes from developing adaptability, critical thinking, empathy, and collaboration rather than just accumulating knowledge.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn when Debo discusses the inevitable shift toward real-time, 24/7/365 payment systems. This isn't merely a trend but a fundamental transformation that businesses must embrace to remain competitive. As she points out, even if your current business model doesn't demand instantaneous transactions, your customers, suppliers, or partners will eventually pull you in that direction. Citi has positioned itself at the forefront of this evolution with innovations like real-time liquidity solutions and 24/7 dollar clearing.
Perhaps most inspiringly, Debo shares wisdom on mentorship and using your voice as a female leader. "You have a voice and therefore you have a responsibility to use it," she advises younger women in the industry. She encourages professionals to proactively seek mentors beyond formal corporate programs, noting that most leaders are eager to give back. Her collaborative approach to leadership - viewing partnerships between traditional institutions and Fintechs as opportunities where "one plus one makes five" - exemplifies how diverse leadership styles can drive innovation in payments.
Join us for this thought-provoking conversation about redefining leadership through influence, impact, and innovation in the evolving payments landscape.
Welcome to the Leaders in Payments podcast, where we talk to C-level leaders from across the payments landscape. We'll be discussing the products and services that impact the payment space today, as well as trends and predictions for the future of payments. We will also hear stories from our guests about their journeys to the top.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone and welcome to the Leaders in Payments podcast. I'm your host, greg Myers, and this episode is part of our Women Leaders in Payments month, something we do every year in the month of July, and it's one of my favorite times of the year. This year's theme is redefining leadership, influence, impact and innovation. So those are some of the things you're going to be hearing about during the month of July. So, first, a special thank you to our sponsors. Our title sponsor is WorldPay, our participating sponsors are VisiPay and PayRock, and our episode sponsors are the Clearinghouse and Genico and PaySafe. So special thanks to those companies. Today, I'm honored to have as our special guest Debo Pamasen, the head of payments at Citi. So, debo, thank you so much for being here and welcome to the show.
Speaker 3:Delighted to be here. Thank you for having me, Greg.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, let's start with kind of a fun question, a little icebreaker. So if you could have dinner with any woman in history, past or present, who would that be and why, and what kind of restaurant would you go to?
Speaker 3:So you know this changes from time to time. So if you were to ask me this question today which you are I would say Jacinda Ardern, because I'm reading her book right now, called A Different Kind of Power, where she writes about, you know, being the prime minister of New Zealand and I think it's amazing because she talks about just having the courage to talk about kindness in government and kindness as a form of leadership. Was it's something that just really tickled my curiosity and I found it really exciting. In terms of what food, I don't know, I think maybe I'll offer her Indian food and see what she says.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, great. So let's talk a little bit about your background and career. So, if you don't mind, give us kind of a quick snapshot of your background, maybe where you grew up, where you studied and kind of what led you into payments.
Speaker 3:So I grew up, Craig, in India. I grew up in multiple cities in India. We moved around quite a bit and then I studied. I have a degree in mathematics which, depending on who you ask you know, some people say well, that's not a surprise, and some people say really mathematics. On who you ask you know, some people say well, that's not a surprise, and some people say really Mathematics. And then I have a business degree from Mumbai.
Speaker 3:I started my career actually as a management associate, so management trainee, with Citi, straight from campus after my MBA. That was 29 years ago. I thought I'll just try out banking for a couple of years and you know famous last words. And then I worked in many different areas of the business. That is the amazing thing about the Citi platform that not only do you have many areas and countries and businesses to choose from, but Citi also gives you that opportunity and says go for it every time you want to do something out of your comfort zone. So I've worked in Singapore, in New York, in India in payments, liquidity management, security services services, trade finance. But I actually moved here to the US in the summer of 22, just after the pandemic, to take on the payments role after having done a little bit of payments in my journey, and it really has been an amazing ride.
Speaker 2:Okay, great. Thank you so much for sharing that. So another fun, quick little question. So if you're presenting on the stage, as sometimes they do, you have a hype song. So what would your hype song be and why would you pick that song?
Speaker 3:So at this point, the hype song that I've used a couple of times has been the one called Little Less Conversation and a Little More Action by Elvis. Not because I don't like conversation I love conversation but sometimes you just want to spur some action.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Okay, so, if you don't mind, tell us a little bit about your role today and then maybe what excites you the most about the work that you're currently doing.
Speaker 3:So I look after the payments business within services, within the services business at Citi.
Speaker 3:I'm a member of the services leadership team and I really look after sort of the end-to-end payments business, starting with strategy execution, responsible for the growth and risk management across all our payment solutions across our 94-country footprint for corporate clients, public sector clients, financial institutions and commercial banking clients. So, as you can imagine, it's a very, very interesting business. I think what really excites me about the payments business and services in general because our payments offering is very closely integrated with everything else we do in services but at the heart of it, we are really the first port of call, helping our clients Citi's clients as they make the transition to the digital economy. Whether they're a digital native, born digital, or they are a large traditional company or a mid-sized global company really making that transition and competing with others in that transition to the digital economy, they really look to someone like Citi to help them with their payments needs because payments often then becomes the enabler or whether they're going to win in the digital economy or not.
Speaker 2:Okay, great. So let's talk a little bit about leadership and maybe some lessons learned there. So, as you well know, in your position, leadership is evolving. But what does modern leadership mean to you and how do you try to embody that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think a few things I would call out. I mean, obviously, some things about leadership remain the same, but there are some aspects which I think are a little more relevant in today's world where everything is changing so fast. I think, first, being able to look for the signal amidst the noise and really lean into that to form and articulate the strategic vision and how we will get there, and then being able to make sure that the team understands that and the people around you really understand that strategic vision. This is more challenging in modern times, as there is generally more noise than perhaps there was in the past and for us, if we think about how I translate this to payments and services at Citi, client excellence is at the center of what we do. So listening and hearing what our clients have to say that really is our signal amidst the noise. There is more unpredictability in the times around us and therefore we are hyper-focused on this aspect.
Speaker 3:The second thing I think, greg, is that our job as leaders is to help our teams that we lead really be the best that they can be. It shouldn't be about the leader, it's about the team and in a modern world, in an AI-driven world, it't be about the leader, it's about the team, and in a modern world, in an AI driven world, it's not about the knowledge. It'll be about skills like adaptability, intellectual curiosity, critical thinking. Knowledge will be everywhere, but how do you really distill that? And then things like trust and empathy and collaboration. So I think, as a leader, understanding that that that is what will differentiate us as a team and really steering the team towards that, I think is a big responsibility that we all have in today's world.
Speaker 2:Okay, was there a defining moment, or I call them aha moments that maybe helped define your career?
Speaker 3:Oh, there are so many. I think we are today probably, you know, all of us are really an amalgamation of every choice that we have made in the past and, you know, every lucky thing that ever has happened to us. Luck always has a role to play. But if I were to think back over the 29 years, I think the decision to move to New York to lead a global business has probably been the most defining moment so far. I've loved being in the network, I've loved being at the forefront of our client conversations, but I'm also really enjoying this part of my career where I feel I can impact our global strategy and delivery for our clients across the world, perhaps to a higher degree. So I would probably attribute that as one of the more defining moments in recent past.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay. Well, what's something that you believe female leaders bring to the table that our payments industry needs more of?
Speaker 3:I think female leaders and leaders in general, but good leaders in general probably do well. What they do well is to listen, and I think female leaders and leaders in general, but good leaders in general probably do well. What they do well is to listen and, I think, listening to our clients, listening to our teams, who are really close to what's happening on the ground, and then working to find the outcome where everybody wins, or more people win than lose. These are just a few attributes of great leaders and female leaders, great female leaders that I think the world could just do more of.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, let's change gears a little bit and talk about innovation and influence. So I mean, you've mentioned it, we all talk about it the payment space is changing so fast. How do you, as a leader, stay innovative?
Speaker 3:I think the first thing is just where you get your information from is a big choice that each of us make every day, and I believe in really being out there, traveling, being with our clients, being with our regulators, being with industry partners, sometimes with our competitors, with our teams, who are really close on the ground, really to listen to what's going on, what are the challenges that they're grappling with. And there are many things happening in the world today, greg, as you know. You know, the news just never stops, but, as I said, perhaps a little earlier, the signal, the one secular trend that's happening, is that commerce is moving online. Supply chains are getting disrupted, there is a lot more democratization of commerce, which means that in the past, as a large corporate, you would have probably dealt with large suppliers and large dealers or distributors, but today you're dealing with small merchants on a platform. You're dealing directly with consumers, very often purely digitally.
Speaker 3:So there's just much more democratization of commerce and that means that our clients are dealing with a completely different paradigm of competition, of risk, of experiences, of technology and pushes and pulls of demands and a completely different way of decision making and pushes and pulls of demands and a completely different way of decision making. So I think just understanding that dynamic and listening to them and looking for proof points and stories in how they're succeeding and what's working for them, I think is a great source of really understanding that information and then innovating to solve for those problems. So I think that is one key aspect. The other key aspect, I think, of staying ahead is just immersing, and there's nothing like experimenting with the technology, there's nothing like learning through experience. You can always read and you can always hear, but there's nothing like actually experiencing some of the new technology and new innovation that is coming about.
Speaker 2:Okay, is there one thing that you're keeping a close eye on, a trend or a change in the industry that you're really watching closely?
Speaker 3:I think there are many to choose from.
Speaker 3:As I said, in the payment space there's a lot of new headlines In addition to the secular trend of commerce going digital.
Speaker 3:I think the one payments-related trend I would say, which is almost an inevitability, so to speak, is the world of real-time and 24-7, 365. I think, just as it is just a one-way trend, we hear sometimes people saying that 24-7 is not for me or real-time is not for me. But in reality, even if it is not currently for you for your current business model, either your customers or your suppliers or your partners or your influencers, your parts of the supply chain, will kind of take you there. So I think this is certainly a trend that Citi has embraced as a reality. So I think this is certainly a trend that Citi has embraced as a reality, and a lot of our innovation in the last 24, 12, 36 months have been about enabling our clients to operate 24-7, always on in real time, Whether it's real-time liquidity solutions, whether it's 24-7 dollar clearing that we launched a couple of years ago, or it is our Citi token services. So that is one trend that I would point out amongst all others.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think just in my life I have a 21-year-old daughter and it's all real time, right If she's working on something and it's always on the phone, right. If it doesn't work, she's on to the next thing. I mean it's got to be low friction and fast and real time. I mean that's just, I think, the expectation of our younger generations.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. And, greg, I think, as you rightly said, if she doesn't find that experience, she'll move on to something else, and that's why we are finding that you may be a business offering a great digital experience, but if the fulfillment of that experience falls through because the payment solution is not real time, always on instant, then you've lost your customer and I think that's sort of we've almost made it our mission to help our clients achieve that goal.
Speaker 2:Great, great. So how do you think women leaders can influence the future direction of the payments industry?
Speaker 3:So many different ways, but I think some of the things that stand out which, again, as I always like to say, I think attribute of good women leaders, but attribute of all good leaders is just having a bias for collaboration, having a bias for listening. I mean something like you know, co-creation is something that we are very big on. We love to do that with our biggest and sort of most innovative clients. But just collaboration, you know we hear a lot about, as you're a bank, you know, are you competing with fintechs? Are you competing with certain types of players? And in my experience, yes, we compete with a lot of different kinds of players, but the power that comes out of some of the collaborations and partnerships that we have done I think it's always a one plus one makes five in those cases. So I would like to believe that we can do a lot more collaboration, a lot more joint initiatives. That creates a more powerful solution for our customers.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay. Well, let's talk a little bit now about mentorship and impact. Are there women in the industry who've influenced you, whether directly or indirectly? Who were they and how did they influence you?
Speaker 3:I think for this one I'd have to be very, very close to home, because I don't really have to look very far. Our CEO, greg, is a very, very inspiring leader, jane Fraser and it's been amazing to watch her, both from afar when I was in the network and now in the US. Just watch her focus on execution, on accountability, client centricity, and I think that's very exciting. One of the things that really stayed with me that she talks about is that she wants a simple, transformative, tech-led organization, and that's something that we really tried to imbibe. So again, I was speaking about leaders needing to do two things really well. One is set the strategic vision which we see her do every day, and we've seen her do that, but also sort of help their teams be the best that they can be, and I think I take a lot of inspiration from Jane.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, so a lot of big companies have formal mentorship programs, but smaller companies and there's a lot of those in our space don't necessarily have formal mentorship programs, but smaller companies and there's a lot of those in our space don't necessarily have formal mentorship programs. Any thoughts on how can women find mentors or be a mentor or just kind of that whole mentorship space? I mean, it's always been important to me and I feel like it's a conversation we don't talk about enough, because if your company doesn't have it, what do you do? I mean, there's obviously LinkedIn that can help, but I just think that there's more to just relying on your company for mentorship. So could you speak to that a little bit?
Speaker 3:I couldn't agree with you more and I think this goes back to the principle of all of us, women included, need to take charge of our own career, and part of taking charge of our own career is finding your set of mentors and set of inspiring leaders and sponsors that you can always draw from. And in my experience, I found that women or men within or from outside of the organization, if you reach out to someone and you know, create that connection and say I would love to be mentored by you, and these are the reasons and you approach that discussion in a very constructive, focused way. I can't imagine you know that people are going to say no, because all of us as leaders want to give back. We've all benefited from having I certainly have, from tremendous sponsorship and mentorship, and I'm always willing to give back. And if I look around at my cohort of mentees, many of them are no longer in the organization or have never been. You know they're people I met externally as part of the industry.
Speaker 3:So I think the organizational program should not stop anyone from reaching out. And yeah, you know, sometimes someone will say I'm too busy, but that's okay, right, there will always be people who will be willing to mentor, and I completely agree with you. It is so important. Sometimes it's the advice and the coaching, of course, but sometimes it is just knowing that you know if someone else can do this, especially when you're having a bad day, all you need is to be able to look to someone. Hey, if she can get through that, maybe I can too.
Speaker 2:Right, right, I love that. So what would be one piece of advice you would give a younger female leader in our industry?
Speaker 3:I think the first thing would be you have a voice and therefore you have a responsibility to use it. And use your voice to drive creativity, collaboration, passion for excellence and just a dislike for mediocrity. But use your voice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. I love that. Well, before we wrap up, I want to ask another kind of fun question. So what app on your phone non-work related do you use the most, and what does that say about you?
Speaker 3:Okay, well off, late, I would say a lot of chat, GPT and Gemini, but you could say a lot of that is to get updated on industry knowledge, so perhaps not completely non-work related. And the other one I would say is my most used app is my meditation app.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay great.
Speaker 3:So that says two things about me, I guess, is that, yes, I like to. I believe in sort of calm, meditative breathing once a day to just keep myself going.
Speaker 2:Awesome, awesome. Well, before we go, I just want to make sure that we've covered everything. See if there's anything that you want to add before we wrap up the show.
Speaker 3:No, I think the only thing I would say is that the world of payments is an extraordinarily exciting and amazing world, I think. Certainly at Citi, our clients look to us to really help them navigate the uncertainties in the world, as well as the changes, and this is something that we are extremely focused on, both in terms of new solutions as well as creativity and innovation, and a large part of that comes down to individual leadership and working with each other to make things better.
Speaker 2:Great. I think that's a great way to close out. So, debo, thank you so much for being on the show today. I know your time is very valuable, so again, really appreciate you being here, and especially during this month.
Speaker 3:My pleasure. I really enjoyed the conversation, Greg.
Speaker 2:Great, and thanks to all you listeners out there. I appreciate your time and until the next story.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining us this week on the Leaders in Payments podcast. Make sure you visit our website at leadersinpaymentscom, where you can subscribe to the show and where you'll find our show notes. If you enjoyed listening, please share on your social channels as well.